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Postby mikegadd » 21 Nov 2008, 22:11

For a long while now, some businesses have installed video cameras on buildings in Symi. Some of these broadcast live pictures on the internet where they can be viewed from anywhere and everywhere in the world. The image from one of these cameras, for example, has Mouragio and the harbour filling the top of the picture and the road by the bus stop in the bottom half. When the "Aegli" is moored in Symi, it is shown clearly. You can also see the people getting off and on. The same is also true for the �Proteus�. The images on these websites are updated every thirty seconds.

While certain cameras are too high up and have too poor a picture quality for faces to be clearly seen, the movements of Port Police and Greek Navy boats, as well as Army vehicles on the road, are being recorded systematically and broadcast live to the World. I understand that the Symi Port Police have expressed concern, as such cameras clearly break the law regarding video surveillance and security in border islands such as Symi, but these concerns have so far been ignored.

Several months ago the situation worsened as another camera was installed in the centre of the harbour, showing the pavement, harbourside walk and the taxi boats. Any vehicles passing along the road can be recorded and broadcast live. With this camera, faces are visible and recognisable and all who visit the surrounding buildings can also be shown.

I think it�s unacceptable that there are cameras on Symi that spy on us on a daily basis. Watching the cameras a few days ago for a few minutes, I was able to see people that I recognise, and I am sure that none of them know that their business is now being shown off to the World in this way.

Everyone who cares about their privacy should complain about these cameras to the relevant authorities and they may then be taken off the air. Spying by camera on people has become a way of life in many parts of the world, especially in Great Britain and Northern Europe, but despite the efforts of some to import them to Greece, the Greek law is clear: this way of spying is illegal.


Christos Byron
� The News of Symi newspaper


Any thoughts? :?:

Anthony?
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Postby Kon » 21 Nov 2008, 22:38

Two words "GOOGLE EARTH)
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Postby Richard » 21 Nov 2008, 22:49

This is indeed a difficult question. As this person says, the definition is not good enough (at 640x480) to see faces. We the viewers do take great delight in seeing this beautiful place when we are not fortunate enough to be on the Island but can understand that some might object to being the subject of such "surveillance". Many of the people I know on Symi are well aware that these cameras exist but I have never heard a word against them. Indeed, they seem pleased that we are able to keep in touch while we are planning our next visit, to their benefit. Furthermore, I have seen some of them wave to the camera, especially the new one, in the knowledge that this picture will be transmitted (if anyone happens to be watching). These cameras are a wonderful advertisement for Symi.

The point about the movements of army and harbour police vehicles is more difficult. Admittedly we are unlikely to take much notice of such movements and would not know the significance of these. It is evident that anyone who is really intested in these is likely to have set up his own webcam (a very easy task) and could then track these far more efficiently than these fixed cameras. Who knows how many of these private cameras exist? The repositioning of the old camera no longer covers the area around the Police Station so a major source of possibly embarassing surveillance no longer exists.

There is no easy answer. Doubtless the Mayor will take account of all opinions and give his considered reply in due course. It would be a severe blow to me if the decision were taken to remove these cameras which give us such enjoyment and comfort. Such decision would have to be for the benefit of the people of Symi. I trust that he will come to the correct decision and hope that these cameras will be allowed to remain. They keep Symi in our minds and hearts and encourage us to return when possible. Think carefully, Lefteris.

Incidentally, what is this News of Symi publication?
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Postby Kojak » 22 Nov 2008, 05:48

This is a piece of mischief of course. This was not an article or an editorial in the newspaper but a letter written by a person from another Symi website. A person who, by the way, takes and publishes on the internet many photographs of people, close up and in very clear definition which means, of course, that they are easily recognisable. These photographs include many of parades where military personnel and police are present. I'm sure the photographer does not and indeed cannot ask permission of every person whose photograph is taken and published for the world to see. It seems therefore that the letter is at the least, very hypocritical...
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Postby sarah » 22 Nov 2008, 08:29

just to add type in to any search engine greek webcam and a whole list of webcams pop up all over greece on beaches in towns i even found some in athens granted in some you wouldnt recognise a person but what about the others that do do they require permission to broadcast im sure the ones in athens would have been shut down for sure in that case as the address was clearly stated on the website as Kojack said someones trying to cause mischief
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Postby ola » 22 Nov 2008, 12:43

Christos editorial, originally posted on the SG site, brings on some interesting issues.

We live in a society where surveillance cameras and web cams are posted all over. I recently read that the UK leads in the contest of having the most surveillance cameras pr capita.
In this context we may leave the surveillance cameras out and direct attention to the web cameras. As Christos says these are available and free to see for anyone able to log on the internet. They bring overviews of anything from Symi harbor (this sites two cameras and the SG page trial in the spring was a good example) to Piccadilly Circus and the White House. Most of the cams are low resolution and usually there are no way you can recognize faces so in my opinion anonymity are taken care of.

This in contrast to internet pages with photos posted by local newspapers or webmasters showing the Saturday night out or tourists swarming the streets of Athens or Symi for that matter. Asking everyone their permition to publish are an impossible task and so the modern society has accepted this, even is it has been the downfall of quite a few marriages and other relationships.

In my opinion these cams brings nothing but joy onto the viewers PC screens and a possibility to keep updated with a location one relate to and even long for going back to.

The point of the military and / or the harbor police having an issue as the cams might be used for spy purposes I find ridiculous. The movements of ships and boats as well as cars to and from the military camp can be monitored much better than by local amathor cams. Satellites and dedicated cameras will, if necessary, take care of intelligence.

This spy angle may stem from some Greeks mistrust of their NATO allay Turkey and the constant worry of an invasion. The history of the costal region of today's Turkey and Cyprus are not easily forgotten.

This paranoia is claimed to be the reason why one are unable to buy decent maps of the greek islands but still have to rely on antique Italian or British maps bought at antique dealers or on the internet to have a reliable map. The only one I know of of Symi, displayed publicly, is the NATO map on the wall in the ANES office.

To conclude - my opinion is that there are no cause for the worry of web cams. Be it in Symi, outside the Parliaments of the worlds capitals or outside the White House.
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Postby maziemoo » 22 Nov 2008, 13:38

I agree with so many of the points that people have put across here.

For me the first thing that sprang to mind was the sheer hypocracy of the article in question and I think Kojak sums up nicely exactly those things that immediately came to mind. I can say this with absolute confidence because I e-mailed a friend earlier in the year to tell her that I'd spotted a photo of her and her new fiance.

I can tell you she was very surprised indeed to see a picture of herself there for all the world to see and was a bit peeved that no-one had had the decency to ask her if they could take the photograph in the first place let alone post it on a website!

I'm personally sick to death of the all the petty nit-picking...there's an old saying "the devil makes work for idle hands"!

I would suggest bowing to the request of the harbour police or the mayor to withdraw the webcam is one thing, but conforming to someone else's distorted view of right or wrong is something else.
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Postby Kon » 22 Nov 2008, 22:37

This issue has started many years ago during the 70s actually when the Greek government put cameras out in the streets to view demonstrating students.
Personally i think the whole thing is a joke,if so called spying is to be done it would not worry about a little island such as Symi ,Anybody been to Crete ?there is plenty to spy there if you are inclined to.If the Turkish boats are allowed to come and moor in Symi harbour ,who's to say that the tourist looking couple are not really spies and have full view of Symi harbor movemment.

Army operations have been going on in Greece in the open even before my dad was in the army himself.As for for the Symi police at the moment their biggest concern is when is Parlliment going to issue a new patrol boat so they can patrol Symi waters.
Greece needs cameras it needs to be seen and adored by people who are inclined to come over and spend money ,after all tourism is its biggest industry.So whats next stop mobile phones around the harbor ,tell people come to Greece but dot bring your cameras?

I think the whole thing is 1 persons point of view .Big brother is watching us from far away for different reasons and i dont think they are worried too much that Kon ,Mazie ,Kojak Richard and everyone else is drinking in some bar.As for me they can film me photograph me ,does not worry me one bit. ;)
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Postby Adriana » 24 Nov 2008, 07:32

The Greek television program 'Menoume Ellada' ('We live in Greece') shows footage from webcams in harbours, marinas, towns and villages all over Greece in their programs and also has links to many of these on their website. It is quite fun to watch at this time of the year to see which places are the busiest/quietest in the off season - and who has the worst weather :twisted:
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Postby Kojak » 25 Nov 2008, 12:30

After all the righteous indignation on the other website it was interesting to see that the one of the banner photos there today has a picture of the police boat. I do hope they cleared that with the authorities, it being against the law and all that...
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Postby Adriana » 27 Nov 2008, 08:23

The webcams are in suspended animation at the moment as the power is off today until about 4 p.m :cry:

Apparently we may be powerless again tomorrow :cry:
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Postby Anthony » 29 Nov 2008, 00:47

But the last time I looked at Google Earth it didn't (on Symi at least) have anything near the resolution needed to identify people, military vehicles etc. Despite living in London where one has to accept that "Big Brother is watching you" (though I prefer to think that he is primarily watching the people who might be up to no good - which seems more reassuring: or me when I drive my car, to check that I have paid the Congestion Charge (ouch!!), I do think that he has a very valid point.

Presumably webcams could be set up to produce their images integrated over a long exposure time, which would mean that things that move (like people and vehicles) were blurred out of the picture whereas things that don't, like buildings and other fixtures - which I guess are what we really want to look at - still come out crystal-clear.
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Postby Kojak » 30 Nov 2008, 17:21

Apparently another website is laying great emphasis on the fact that photos may be legal but webcams aren't, ignoring the fact that, legal or otherwise, it's hypocritical to take a photo of anyone or indeed anything without express permission and then complain about a webcam recording the same thing... However, I'm just a drunken, racist cr***n according to some so I can't possibly comment. :geek: 8-)
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Postby maziemoo » 30 Nov 2008, 22:14

Yeah but Kojak doesn't it conjure up nostalgic memories of the school playground :?: when the school bully resorted to personal insults and name calling in a bid to control of you :? . In those days I believed they had the authority to make such judgements, these days I know better of course ;) .
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Postby Kojak » 01 Dec 2008, 19:13

You hit the nail on the head Mazie! Meanwhile, which particular fit young photo of me did you admire? :oops:
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Postby maziemoo » 01 Dec 2008, 20:20

Oh I quite like your 'Bond' look :?: ;) !
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Postby Kojak » 01 Dec 2008, 21:55

I'm shaken, but not stirred, Mazie, but I have a confession to make. The photo has been doctored, only the torso is mine...
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Postby Kojak » 12 Dec 2008, 09:46

The harbour looks a tad rough this morning!
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Postby Richard » 12 Dec 2008, 11:25

It's disappeared here, I'm afraid. I suppose the power is down again. I hope that the supply is reconnected before cooking starts on 25th.
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Postby Kon » 12 Dec 2008, 11:31

Its fine at my end Richard ,maybe its a Mac thing :twisted:
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