Starving Island Horse

by **Geoff** » 23 Aug 2006, 15:39

hello all,

while having a lovely weeks holiday at pedi beach

we booked a round the island trip and had a great bbq on an island where lived an old horse and donkey.

my wife was rather upset; :cry:

although the horse was old and lived in the heat of symi, it was so very clearly underfed. at least thanks to the crew for giving it the remains of our bbq.

I just wondered if any thought could be given to collecting a few coins from boat passengers or symi visitors and arranging to take out hay on a regular basis during the dry summer months when the ground is bare. surely real good publicity for boat (and at no cost but a little organisation) and much better for symi than an obviously underfed horse. Would the owner allow this ?

has anyone any ideas how it could perhaps be helped ??

by **Ozzie Geoff** » 24 Aug 2006, 08:51

Yes, it does put a dampener on a jaunt when you see an animal in need of TLC.
I think your idea is great, there must be plenty of hay on Symi to feed the work donkeys and other livestock.
Trouble is to get the project moving.

by **Geoff** » 24 Aug 2006, 13:29

well yes indeed, Im afraid it does rather dampen what is otherwise a really excellent and highly recommended boat trip, with great food.

If the horse had been in the UK, it would just be one quick phone call to the RSPCA, the owner formally charged and the horse taken straight into care.

But my guess is that just 3 bales of hay a week, feeding only a LITTLE a day, would stop any further weight loss this year, until the grass grows again. Then come around to next June, regular hay would be needed again; teath checked at some point in the year and the horse wormed.

As you highlight, how to get such a project moving - it would have to be done locally by some caring person.

I would post a photo if I knew how !

by **Adriana** » 24 Aug 2006, 15:07

I have asked Symi Animal Welfare to look into this and see if they can do anything. They implement a similar scheme in the winter for keeping the cat population going through the months when pickings are lean in the dustbins so perhaps they can make some sort of plan in the summer as suggested for this poor horse.

by **Mille** » 24 Aug 2006, 15:28

The horse is not the only emiciated equine on Symi I'm afraid.
The donkeys and horses bringing building material round the island do not look too good either.
Maybe S.A.W could co- operate with SPCA on Rhodos?

by **Geoff** » 24 Aug 2006, 15:55

Adriana,
that is very kind - thank you very much.
I know horses in hot countries are naturally thin, similar with old horses, but I think this is a genuine concern.

If they can do anything Im happy to post a horse wormer to Symi (if permitted) which could be administered in this case via a hollowed out apple.

Also - I would be happy to arrange for feeding advice based on its current condition. A danger is that this horse must not be suddenly presented with a mass of high energy food or it will get laminitus of the feet (rotation of a major bone within each foot - which is extremely painful) and then have to be put down.

As you may guess Ive been a horse owner for years. Our lad is called Cody and is now 19. Its routine to have his teath checked and rasped flat (their teath constantly grow) at least once a year as this can be a cause of underweight - if the horse cannot chew its food or its front teath dont come together properly due to incorrect wear.

thanks again Adriana and do please keep us all posted

Geoff

by **benedetti** » 24 Aug 2006, 19:43

The horse and the donkey have been around Sesklia for a few years now and all the remains of the many boat's BBQs go to them. The white horse has an evil temper but the wee donkey seems quite mild. There are many incidences of perceived animal abuse on Symi. My heart bleeds for the poor wee chooks near the windmills and you often come across wee dugs guarding emty fields in the middle of nowhere.

by **Geoff** » 24 Aug 2006, 21:45

Yes, its excellent that they get the leftovers from the BBQ.

I could not agree with you more Benedetti. There are so many incidents of �perceived� animal abuse by tourists, especially towards rescuing cats.

Its interesting you say the horse has a nasty temper � I have to chuckle and please don�t take this personally � imagine a starving horse and a nice BBQ that he is not allowed to eat, shooed away from visitors unknowingly carrying full plates of food under his nose. Im sorry but that is exactly what happened when we visited and he did demonstrate a certain annoyance which could be wrongly interpreted as being a bad tempered old horse. I walked up to him quite happy and fed him by hand, much to the concern of a few people. He reacted quite normally.

I think I will try and post his picture up � then everyone has a chance to surf the web for what defines being underfed �� and you can make up your own mind.

The donkey, being a �good doer� ie can survive on little food � which is typical for donkeys - seems in good condition.

by **gillinoz** » 25 Aug 2006, 13:31

The horse was much the same on my last visit in 2000. I know it's hard but we can't always judge these things by what we see in our own situation. Don't we all go on holiday to enjoy other cultures and ways of life rather than to turn every country into what we live in normally?

Sorry to tell you but down here in Australia we have a blight of rabbits and other introduced species by the English that wanted to bring that what they knew here and now the scientists are working on a controlled form of mixamatosis to get rid of them. Feral ihntroduced cats and foxes are also reeking havok with the natural wildlife. If a species is natural it has to be encouraged to survive but some things go to plague proportions and then some controls need to be put in place.

Having lived on a few Greek islands in my time......the enncouragement the tourists ggive to cats can be very detrimental to what happens at the end of season when the herds are vying for food.......

let the locals deal with it the way they see fit and not from what we see on a 2 week trip is what I say

by **Geoff** » 25 Aug 2006, 15:29

Interesting views Gillinoz ; Oz humour ??

There are indeed many stupid, accidental and purposeful, introductions of non native animals and plants that today cause so many problems - Cane toads to Australia, Japanese knot weed ..... I totally agree that cats dining and breeding in numbers on rightly or wrongly high availability summer waste, can make terrible and lt;local and gt; problems come winter.

Personally, Im very thankful and suportive of the charities who neuter as this has got to be the solution, combined with, most importantly proper local food waste disposal and targeted feeding when the food supply is totally cut off, summer and winter. Excess cats could be easily controlled, without sufferings. Ive just seen this in London with our introduction of sealed wheely bins verses a seriously growning urban fox problem, all be it the foxes have moved on elsewhere.....

However, Im very sorry I absolutely DONT agree with your view to enjoy the culture and let the locals deal with whatever unacceptable sights we may see during our 2 weeks holiday - and that we should just accept. ! IT has NOTHING to do with imposing our wills and making all counties the same.

Have you ever visited rural Africa - your view would close many charities who do really good work ... of course we can (and do) judge what we see from our own prespective - and we can act apon it. Inded , one of our UK jokes is along the line of a (US) tourist who takes a picture of a starving kid in Africa - back home his friend asks, what did you give him ? ... reply - ho F8 exposure at 100th of a second !

Now Im NOT suggesting that Symi cannot look after its own problems and it certainly does not need outside help, esp to feed a horse. But I hope Ive made my point.

BUT to start any ball rolling someone with some knowledge (of horses in this case) needed to highlight a problem. Then it can be dealt with locally by local caring people, occasionally with outside help eg a vet.

We Tourists do and will always have an impact (for good or bad). Its actually mainly money related in my view. No one wants to see, in the lovely surrounds of Symi, suffering or neglect that they would find unacceptable at home. That should be a courner stone of any tourist related industry. The Donkeys on Rhodes in the major tourist attractions are fit and well fed - due to good business sense by the owners but also due to the tourists view of not paying to ride on "our view" of underfed animals and local officials seeking to aid visitors, not deal with their complaints.

Greece is in the EU and has EU standards - its NOT a third world country and they should be upset with your comment that implys they have lower standards than the rest of the EU.

Personally im not on a crusade here, but would just appreciate any help local people can give now a problems been highlighted.

thanks

PS Im still working on posting a picture but Im committed this weekend to the Edenbridge and Oxted Agri show so its likely to be next week, unless Symi Visitor can help post an email attachment.....

by **Allan** » 27 Aug 2006, 12:58

This from Geoff:

A big thanks to Symi Visitor for kindly stepping in and posting my July 2006 photo.

A horse of this breed, bearing in mind its old age and the hot climate, can certainly be expected to have a few ribs lightly showing.

What's of real serious concern, the certain sign of gross under-feeding, is the staggeringly thin hollow hips and rear end. In reality even worse as it moves.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/825/horsecompressednv1.jpg[img]http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3470/horsethumbbj8.jpg[/img]
Click on the picture for a larger version

by **benedetti** » 27 Aug 2006, 14:10

The poor old nag certainly looks a lot thinner than last year.

by **Oor Willie** » 27 Aug 2006, 17:18

I don't think he was this thin when we were there in June looks like he has gone downhill quite a lot in the last monthor so. :?:

by **Ozzie Geoff** » 28 Aug 2006, 07:45

Yes, he certainly looks malnourished and in a poor way. No doubt if it were Oz or UK the RSPCA would be onto the owner like a ton of bricks. Lets hope that some local people take an interest in him, perhaps the schools could have a whip-around, perhaps the hay merchant could give a reduced price for the feed.
Lets hope a vet takes a look and if the worst comes to the worst..

Hi Gill, long time no hear from. You're right, rabbits were introduced by Colonists for a bit of fun and the foxes so they could maintain their hunts. I have seen so many rabbits that the ground looks like its moving, must have been a hundred thousand of them. As we all know, they "breed like rabbits" :geek:

Unfortunately it does not mean cheap rabbit in the butcher, they charge an arm and a leg for them, nearly $30 (12 quid) each. And I love 'em!! :twisted:

by **Adriana** » 28 Aug 2006, 14:23

Symi Animal Welfare has asked me to put up the following message on their behalf:

We appreciate your concern for this horse. Unfortunately we do not have authority to approach the owner and chastise them for how their animal is being treated. However, it has been suggested that we could donate feed to the owner in an attempt to make the horse's life more comfortable, which seems the positive way to go. Also, we will take advice from Martin Bilson, our UK vet, when he makes his visit next month.

Jenine

by **Geoff** » 30 Aug 2006, 14:14

MANY THANK Symi Animal Welfare! Just to mention, Ive never suggested anyone chastise the horse owner, but his agreement to kind people providing extra food to the island during the lean summer months would be really good.

Through July and August this year, we have exceptionally (first time in 15 years) had to feed our own horse daily with "hard food" (high energy - a mix of barley rings and a few other things) just to maintain his correct weight verses very little work. Our friends, all serious horse owners, have been forced to do the same ! So its no wonder that in Symi this horse is showing problems. Its only with our recent UK rain that 24 hour grazing alone is now sufficient.

Martin Bilson is obviously highly experienced in small animals; as no mention is made of his daily work with horses, he may just appreciate SAW pre-warning him .... I only mention this, not as a reflection on his obvious skills, but just that vets in our own area specialize and dont seem to cross over between the two fields of work - small animals and larger farm animals. It would be very kind of him to give advice.

A final big thanks to everyone ... Geoff

by **Adriana** » 31 Aug 2006, 20:04

Just to let all of your know that we are making some progress on this case. A plan of action is definitely going to be implemented as we have now discovered who the owner is and know who to liaise with about this unfortunate animal's well being.

We'll keep you posted!

by **Adriana** » 01 Sep 2006, 13:54

For those of you who have been following this thread, we have just been informed by the owner that the old white horse on Sesklia died of old age last week.

by **Geoff** » 01 Sep 2006, 21:08

I am so very sorry ... but thank you all who tried to help

by **Anthony** » 01 Sep 2006, 22:09

What a shame - I shall miss him on the round-the-island trip!

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